Posts by Disillusioned JW

47

The Evidence of Human Evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger

by Disillusioned JW in

despite the wt's and young earth creationists' teachings against human evolution (namely macroevolution from non-humans) being a reality, the evidence of human evolution keeps getting stronger and stronger.. consider for example two science news articles and one other science article, each pertaining to the fossil that is nicknamed "little foot".

below are links to three science articles, listed in order of the articles from oldest to newest (except i don't see a date for one of the articles).

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2187639-exclusive-controversial-skeleton-may-be-a-new-species-of-early-human/.

Disillusioned JW

I own a hardcover edition of A New Human: The Startling Discovery and Strange of the "Hobbits" of Flores, Indonesia, by Mike Morwood and Penny van OOsteree. The book is copyright 2007. The book says that Homo floresiensis did not descend from Homo erectus, but that its skeletal characteristics of its limb bones and its curved phalanges are much like Homo habilis. Page 136 says the following.

"Another view, promulgated by Lee Berger, director of the paleoanthropology unit at the University of Wiwatersrand in Johannesburg, holds that Australopithecus africanus, which has relatively longer arms and shorter legs compared to Lucy, represents the more primitive, arboreal condition, and cannot therefore be derived from Australopithecus afarensis. Instead, he concludes that the two were contemporaries, and that Australopithecus africanus is the most logical ancestor for genus Homo.

Whatever is the case, the earliest members of genus Homo appeared in Africa by 2.3 million years ago."

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Disillusioned JW

The words "to fear God and keep his commandments" at Ecclesiastes 12:13 (which is what I think Sea Breeze means by "the writer when he reccommends to fear God and give him glory as early in life as possible") were added into the book of Ecclesiastes by someone other the writer of the bulk of the book! Critical biblical scholars have been teaching that for decades, but like the writers of the WT literature, Sea Breeze does not accept that scholarly understanding of the Bible.

What Sea Breeze does not realize and does not accept is that the author of the vast majority of the book of Ecclesiastes believed in a very philosophical materialistic view of life (though while also believing that God exists). Probably his book is the biblical book of all of the biblical books which is most appreciated by atheists. Likewise 1 Maccabees is the book of the Bible-Apocrypha which is the most historically accurate, and it is the the book of the Bible-Apocrypha which is written the most like secular books of history, like real history books.

98

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty in

i have seen arguments surrounding jesus' resurrection being proof of "the trinity" - now while in some cases it's a good argument the evidence for it remains very weak.

(bible quotes are from the nwt but other bibles are referenced, use whichever you please) this following version of it is a good example.. "the bible indicates that all [persons] of the trinity was involved in jesus’ resurrection.

galatians[1:1] says that the father raised jesus from the dead.

Disillusioned JW

https://thechurchoftruth.org/the-bible-is-wrong-about-the-resurrection/ proves conclusively that the resurrection of Jesus Christ never took place!

23

The Gospel According to Jehovah's Witnesses

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones explains the watchtower gospel much better than i can.. "the good news that christians in the first century preached was the birth, death and resurrection of jesus christ; that all those who believed in him were saved and reconciled to god through the death of his son.. unfortunately jehovah’s witnesses) have been led to believe it is something bizarrely different.

the good news according to the watchtower society is as follows:.

the the good news (according to jehovah’s witnesses).

Disillusioned JW

The opening post of this topic quoted Mark Jones saying the following. "The good news that Christians in the first century preached was the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ; that all those who believed in him were saved and reconciled to God through the death of his son." But if the message of the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a major portion of the gospel ("good news") taught by Jesus then there is a major problem with the gospel. That is because https://thechurchoftruth.org/the-bible-is-wrong-about-the-resurrection/ proves conclusively that the resurrection of Jesus Christ never took place! Furthermore that web page says that "The inescapable fact is that Jesus’ teachings (as presented in Matthew, Mark and Luke) are diametrically opposite those of Paul and John." That page has a link to https://thechurchoftruth.org/path-to-salvation-is-not-clear/ which provides the proof of what the three earliest biblical gospels claim Jesus said was the means to obtaining salvation. None of those words attributed (in the synoptic gospels) to Jesus said Jesus required belief in the resurrection of Jesus!

23

The Gospel According to Jehovah's Witnesses

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones explains the watchtower gospel much better than i can.. "the good news that christians in the first century preached was the birth, death and resurrection of jesus christ; that all those who believed in him were saved and reconciled to god through the death of his son.. unfortunately jehovah’s witnesses) have been led to believe it is something bizarrely different.

the good news according to the watchtower society is as follows:.

the the good news (according to jehovah’s witnesses).

Disillusioned JW

Vanderhoven7, I notice that you said you "have a hard time reading any book other than the Bible." By "any book other than the Bible" did you mean that literally, or did you mean something somewhat different? Did you mean "any religious book other than the Bible"? If all books (including all science books) other than the Bible are hard for you to read and understand, then that largely explains why you and I disagree with each in a number of matters. A number of science books (and some other books) are vastly easier for me to understand than some parts of the Bible.

Perhaps by "hard time" you do not mean hard to understand, but rather hard to tolerate (in other words, other books are annoying) or perhaps you mean other books are too boring and thus it is hard for you to motivate yourself to read such books.

12

What do Jehovah`s Witnesses beleive that can be linked to Pagan practices , anyone ?

by smiddy3 in

a previous thread has inspired me to post this ,thanks guys .. { i`ve been out for so long i may have missed something }.

Disillusioned JW

peacefulpete, regarding your post in which you said 'Every aspect of civilization began as "pagan" ' I was going to say something similar, but you beat to it. Congratulations. However mine intended post is more muted than yours, but I decided to include it in the latter part of this email anyway. Regarding what you said, that is true regarding the God the Biblical Abraham and the biblical Moses, since archaeology reveals that Jehovah (Yahweh/Yah/Yahu) God originated as a god of the ancient polytheistic Canaanites, and even as one of the 70 sons of El (by "El" I mean the Canaanite God named El), before becoming specifically identified as the God of the Hebrews and the God of the Jews.

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When the WT (and some other Christian groups) refer to practices and beliefs they don't adhere to due to pagan origins, they mean those pagan practices which started out as a part of religious practice or religious belief (including ones considered superstitious). But if we use the definition of "pagan" to even refer to nonreligious beliefs and practices of polytheists and of nature worshipers, then many ideas and practices of JWs and other Christians are pagan. Even more so, if we also define pagans as "a person who is not religious or whose religion is not Christianity, Judaism, or Islam". That is because our system of time and basic parts of our system of mathematics were created by the ancient Babylonians (or by the ancient Sumerians?). That includes our use of the 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour, and in regards to geometry of 360 degrees in a circle and in regards to some astronomy. It also is in regards to arithmetic. Going back even further in time it also pertains to the invention of stone tools and early metal tools, the invention of cooking, the invention of clothing, the invention of farming, the living in villages and cities, and the hunting and slaughter of animals using weapons/tools.

12

What do Jehovah`s Witnesses beleive that can be linked to Pagan practices , anyone ?

by smiddy3 in

a previous thread has inspired me to post this ,thanks guys .. { i`ve been out for so long i may have missed something }.

Disillusioned JW

enoughisenough, but though the ancient Egyptians were pagans, Russel said the biblical Joseph was the one who built (directed) the building of the the Great Pyramid of Giza. Russell said it happened when Joseph (according to the Bible) was in a very high level governmental position in Egypt. Russell also used a biblical verse to say it was built as a witness to Jehovah God.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

Phizzzy, please list the names of those 35 new species, if you have the time to do so. Are they truly new species, or merely old species which were newly discovered by humans. Sometimes news articles imply that newly discovered species are species which newly came into existence, but if no human was around to see them come into existence how can anyone know they hadn't been in existence for hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of years prior to their discovery?

89

Myth of 1914

by peacefulpete in

the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

Disillusioned JW

Beth Sarim, I have not seen any EXJW Panda Tower's videos. If the WT is very heavily preaching their 1914 doctrine (and see an urgency to do so) then I think it will accelerate the number of JWs and of young people raised as JWs to avoid becoming baptized (or to become inactive if they are publishers). That is because I think that one of the first things doubting JWs (especially including unbaptized ones attending JW meetings) will do Is to look to see if the 1914 doctrine (and the doctrine of the governing body being appointed by Jehovah) is false. The heavy promotion of the 1914 doctrine will draw attention of WT affiliated doubting people to that particular doctrine with a critical eye. When I was still a believing Christian a major thing which caused me to stop believing in the WT religion, as being specially chosen or specially enlightened, was me eventually realizing that Jesus hadn't begun to rule as Messianic king over the Earth. [At the time I thought his reign was still in future, at the time I was not an atheist.] T here is no evidence at all that Jesus is ruling the Earth or mankind. All of the governments (most of which are secular governments) of the Earth are being ruled by humans and there is no sign that any of them are taking direction from Christ (though some of the human ruler think they are doing what Christ wants). Likewise Jesus hasn't conquered any human government. No portion of the Earth is a part of his kingdom, no even the JW religion or the WT's headquarters.

89

Myth of 1914

by peacefulpete in

the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman I notice that you said the following. 'You don’t get it. If JW claim a sign validates 1914. It is written in stone. And that’s that." But consider this, in the WT's volumes called Study in the Scriptures, Russell literally said the 1874 and 1878 dates were some of the dates which were "God's dates", "not man's dates". He further said that certain events confirmed those dates to be true. Rutherford made similar claims about those dates (such as in the Harp Of God book, I think). Since the WT did such before, they can also drop the 1914 date (despite having claimed that various signs confirm the 1914 date). Dropping the 1914 would cause them to loose many members (like when they dropped other dates, such as the 1925 date set by Rutherford), but later they would possibly attract other people to become new JWs (after the baggage of the 1914 doctrine has been jettisoned).